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August 30, 2008

Comments

Scott

Well...i don't know man. here's a quote from her speech when he announced her (as best as I remember it):

"I'd like to congratulate Hillary Clinton on making 18,000,000 cracks in that glass ceiling. And now, I'm ready to take up the mantle on crash on all the way through".

Sounds a lot like pandering to me.

You say genius, I say desperate.

Boneman

Bro. Bro.

I would only concede "desperate" IF:

1. McCain were like 15 pts+ behind, which he isn't.
2. McCain picked a moderate-to-liberal leaning woman, which he didn't.

As it is, the race is close and Palin is ANYTHING but another Hillary. Was it a strategic "in your face" for not choosing Hillary? Sure. Was it a decision to try and woo some disenfranchised Hillary supporters? Of course!

But desperate? Desperate? If that was desperate they are totally stupid - and I don't think they're that stupid.

C'mon, man.

And for the record, I said the Palin choice "made sense." The ad after the convention was "genius."

:)

Gina B

What is desperate about a completely qualified female VP? She is everything I want as a conservative, more so than McCain.

Define desperate...

Scott

Well, here's the way I see it. And some of this is gleaned from pundits.

Although McCain appears close, it's probably not as close as it seems. In the battleground states Obama's tied or ahead in most. It's the popular numbers that are close. So, McCain's further behind than most people think.

Also, McCain can't have it both ways. He criticizes Obama in a less-than-genius ad accusing him of being simply a celebrity who's not experienced enough to lead and then turns around and chooses someone with 2 years of governing experience? In Alaska??

Define "completely qualified".

Eric

My initial reaction was, "what?" But I let it sink in a little, read up on her and now I agree. It was a brilliant choice. I think she could help carry parts of the northeast and northwest along with women and middle class suburbanites. And she TRULY has more administrative/executive experience than BO.

Camilo

I think the word is brilliant, not desperate. McCain, who is an insane serial crasher of military aircraft, is nonetheless a crafty old politician and Joe Biden should have warned Obama that there would be days like this.

Consider:
If Obama wins, the next president of the U.S. after that will be a woman (Palin 2012 def. Obama 2012).

If McCain wins, the next president of the U.S. after that will be a woman (Palin 2012 def. H. Clinton 2012).

In either case, that woman is conservative, Christian, and pro-gun. Pretty smart, politically speaking.

Unfortunately, AIPAC, the banks and the military industrial complex will still run the show no matter who wins. Make sure you have a lot of canned food.

Camilo

Boneman

Scott - you just awakened the neo-conservative giant in my house... Oh boy. Here we go.

I'll look forward to watching that play itself out as an aside. However, you didn't answer one of the planks in the theory - that Palin is the anti-Hillary. What do you say about that?

Splash

The moment she was introduced, I signed onto one of the more prominent online forums for Hillary. Of the dozen or so comments up, every single one of them were in Palin's favor. Most mainly giving the old "bwa-ha-ha!" Obama's direction, but several going beyond that to "for the first time in my life, I'm voting Republican" and "now is a good time to introduce ourselves to the McCain camp as supporters."

Will it hold up? Who knows, but Palin's glass ceiling comments were brilliant. Because like black conservatives tempted by Obama, all but the most hardcore of feminists will feel the pull. Never underestimate the power of identity politics.

And when "Sarah Barracuda" eviscerates "The Plagiarizer" during the VP debates? Hoo boy.

As for me, I was contemplating sitting this one out after Romney didn't make the cut. Abortion and potential Supreme Court appointments alone were keeping me in the neighborhood. And while Saddleback thawed me out toward McCain, too, Palin just made me all toasty warm. Obviously. (www.roguewavelength.blogspot.com).

Bottom line, McCain hasn't made a misstep yet and Obama is already wearing out his welcome. I'm feeling good.

Scott

I think Splash just made my point for me. Except for his last paragraph.

So, sweet! I've awoken the sleeping giant??? Giddy up!!

I'll look forward to hearing more.

Theisens

Here are "The Theisens' list of Gripes for Indecision 2008":

1. Why are the Evangelicals getting their panties in a bunch about the same old, tired issues (abortion, stem cell, etc.)? Over the last 20 years we've had Republican presidents say, "I oppose abortion", but yet it still remains in practice. Nothing has changed, even in the last 8. So, the gripe here is, if nothing has changed, why vote based on this issue. Do you think it's going to change now?

2. Call me idealistic, but if there ever was a time for a third party candidate to emerge, it's now. I hear time and time again about how people don't really like either candidate, but voting for one or the other is like the lesser of two evils, or some crap like that...oh oh, that, and they don't want to throw their vote away. I say it's throwing your vote away to go along with what "they" are giving you. There are too many people who think this way, so why not change it? Why not do something about it? My solution: start a you tube campaign for someone else. Anyone else. Just put it out there, without their consent if necessary. Get them on the ballot. At least if either pick sucks, we can go down swinging.

3. My faith in the electoral college system is utterly shaken.

4. To go along with 1 and 2, I'm really tired of groups of people just voting with a political party.

Okay, that's all for now. More at 11.

Boneman

Scott - check this out...

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html

Boneman

Theisens - you live in Ohio - one of the few states that actually matter! You gotta get involved, man!

Boneman

Ok - check out one more...

http://newsmax.com/insidecover/Pollster_Predicted_Palin_/2008/08/30/126415.html

Theisens

Oh, I'm going to get involved. With a 3rd party. This republican/democrat debacle is crap. I'm going to find someone I can believe in.

RevK

The Warren Forum was HUGE! What a clear distinction on so many issues! Bones, attending that event wasn't above your pay grade? I'm surprized that you haven't said anything about it prior to this. How did you like the new HD system??

Boneman

Dude. I haven't had time - I will try to blog on the Warren Forum later, though. Very, very good...

To be honest, I was thinking more about blogging about what a stud Rick Warren is. We'll see. One blog at a time.

What's your blog address again? Do you have one?

Gina B,

Scott-
I still don't see how this is desperate. Did I miss your answer? She has governed Alaska for only 2 years but she has done a lot in those two years and in the city council and mayorship as well as the the Alaska Commissioner of Oil and Gas. In all those positions she stood up to politics as usual from both Republicans and Democrats. Isn't that what we liked about Ron Paul?

As Gov. of Alaska she enacted a tax increase on oil company profits and created a new cabinet to address climate change/reduce greenhouse gasses. She stood up to the good old boys by rescinding 35 appointments made by the last gov. in the last hours of him being in office. She took the windfall surplus from high oil prices and gave it back to the people to pay for higher heating costs. She also cut a lot of spending in the Alaska budget. She governed a state that shares a border with two different countries, Canada and Russia.

What has Biden done to show that he is not going to come in and do politics as usual? That my friend is desperate.

RevK

Yeah, I have one. And I guess I'll get back to it again... Talk about being busy! These past two years have been too much!

http://epistemockery.blogspot.com/

Scott

Brett - Zogby is the same pollster who had Kerry winning the election ON election day in '04 :) And, regardless, there is always, always a bounce after stuff like this and it almost always comes back down. Let's see where the numbers are in 30-60 days. RealClearPolitics.com has a nice site that presents all viewpoints and averages many, many polls. Take a look at those numbers.

Gina - Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that Palin isn't a good governor. She's young, exciting, a DC outsider, up-and-coming, a rising star. Sound like anyone else in this election? Maybe like the same person McCain has spent a good deal of his campaign saying wasn't ready for the job? Because of those very reasons?

My point in saying that it's desperate is that it's a complete reversal of strategy. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Some may call that crafty or wily. To me, it smacks of desperation. He's pandering to the dis-affected Hillary supporters and he's pandering to the far-right. McCain has always tried to position himself as the maverick, reaching across the aisle, etc. I just find this pick totally inconsistent with his political biography.

And now there's stuff coming out that suggests she wasn't even properly (or, at least, thoroughly vetted): accepting huge earmarks as mayor, the investigation into her brother-in-law's firing, her daughter's pregnancy. Again, it seems last minute and desperate.

The Biden pick is not at all desperate. It's exactly what everyone expected Obama to do. How can that be desperate? From day one it's been acknowledged that he would pick a seasoned (probably older, white) politician to balance his ticket. Someone both Republicans and Democrats respect. Someone that would appeal to the middle-class voters who seem to completely misunderstand Obama and his policies. Someone with a strong foreign-policy background. Biden's been one of the front-runners from day one.

Now, if he had picked Hillary, that would have been desperate.

Here's an interesting issue I've heard some grumblings about. I would love your opinion on it (sincerely, not pointedly :)). I've been told there are some conservative bloggers out there wondering what, with 5 children, 4 of whom are still school-aged and one that has Down syndrome, is she doing? Shouldn't she be home taking care of her family?


Scott

Check this out...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26501863/

Gina B.

OK I will admit up front that this stuff gets me worked up so please forgive me if this comes across in a mean way. I am trying to stay calm...Holy Spirit please be with me.

You said yourself McCain is a maverick, he reaches across the aisle. That is what he did with Palin. He picked someone we were not expecting (maverick) and one that energizes both the far right (me) and the independent women.

Is the problem that he did not check with the far left media first?

Palin is a true outsider...Obama is not. Obama is the epitomy of Washington. He does and says whatever he has to do to get elected. Just because he has done nothing during his time in DC does not make him an outsider. Take Michelle Obama's speech. She sounded like June Cleaver. I admit I don't know a lot about her but a stay at home mom she is not. Not to mention, I think June Cleaver is proud to be an American.

As to the liberal media's "suggestions"-let's wait for the facts to come out. At least Palin doesn't think her daughter is being "punished with a baby for a mistake she made". As for her brother in law...what I have read about that is pretty interesting. Not someone that should have a badge, but again let's wait for the facts.

I think it is interesting that just because Biden has strengths where Obama is week that he is a good choice. Doesn't he represent what Obama's campaign is against. Obama says change, a new America. Biden is an old school Democrat. How does he represent change? Aren't you contradicting yourself when you say Obama can bring in Biden to reach out to people who wouldn't support him without Biden, but McCain is pandering when he does that? Does McCain have to check with the media first so that it is not pandering. What I like most about Palin is that 1)She has more executive experience than anyone on either ticket. 2) I agree with her political philosophy, as much as I understand it. (Obama may say change but it is all the wrong kind of change for this country) 3) She lives out her political beliefs in her own life.

As far as staying home and raising her kids. No one on either ticket is doing that. I wish every women would but that is not the world we live in. Michelle nor Barak are home with their girls. Stay at home mom's are a dying ideal in this country. Very sad.

Thiesens-hey, the only way to change the abortion laws in this country is to keep a conservative in the White House so that they can appoint conservative judges. There are two old ones that will probably be replaced during the next Presidents term.

TexanInCali

Gina B----

EXCELLENT points!!

Game set and match to Gina B.

Splash

Thiesens -- Are you kidding me? So the whole banning partial-birth abortion isn't progress?? The fight to overturn Roe v. Wade is a game of inches, to be won incrementally over DECADES. Definitely in the courts. Ultimately the Supreme Court.

Have you heard the pro-aborts recently? They're in a panic. THEY all claim things are shifting our way.

Al Gore said in his speech that the next president would likely seat two new Supreme Court justices, saying a woman's right to choose was in jeopardy should McCain win. He's right. And Obama would set the cause back a generation or two, guaranteed.

So fantasize about going down in a blaze of insignificance with Bob Barr if you feel like it, but sitting it out in November is handing a victory to the enemy.

Scott

Gina - don't get worked up! It's supposed to be fun :)

Thanks for your thoughts on the stay-at-home Mom question. Well put. By the way, where was the quote from? I don't recognize that.

OK. This is not a maverick pick. I've been hearing other people say that today and I don't see it. He wanted Joe Lieberman from day one. This pick was made because his party wanted him to do it. That's not a maverick.

I also don't buy the whole "secrecy" idea that's out there. McCain's been very open about his vetting (Pawlenty, Jindal, Lieberman, Romney, etc.). He met Palin once in Feb. and then again last Thursday, the same day he offered her the job. I'm happy to wait until the facts come out and, honestly, hope they pan out for Palin. Anything otherwise would be pretty disappointing. I also think one of the bigger issues might be the earmarks when she was mayor. That pretty much seems undeniable. All I'm suggesting is that it has an appearance of being a last-minute decision made out of capitulation and not what McCain really wanted.

And it isn't what he wanted, he was talked out of Lieberman. From what I've read that seems pretty legit.

Now, as far as Biden/Obama and change. What I'm saying is that Obama's actions have been pretty consistent from the time he won the primary. He's basically said "I need someone who has the respect of a lot of people in Washington to try to help me do what I want to do." I don't quite see that the same way as doing whatever it takes to get elected. Whether that's an effective way to create change will remain to be seen. My comment about reaching out to blue-collar voters is that I think he actually is trying to champion their cause, he's just having trouble connecting with them b/c of the far right media (and Hillary) labeling him an elitist. That's not doing whatever it takes to get elected. That's trying to connect.

What's different about McCain is that he's never, as far as I know, tried to identify himself with that constituency. Hence the complete lack of enthusiasm from them about him. And probably for good reason. He's a moderate. Always has been. And, hey, if she'd been in the forefront all along as one of his choices or if he'd described this pick as "reaching across the aisle" that would be a little different. But it feels more like he's trying to paint himself as someone he's not.

As far as what kind of change we need. I actually agree with Theisens and, probably, a lot of people that read this blog that a politician is a politician is a politician. I truly was on the Ron Paul bandwagon and hope, in our lifetime, we can have a shake-up of the system like he was promoting.

So, without, getting into who is a better candidate I'll just refer back to my original post. McCain's behind. And I find his actions a little desperate. If I'm wrong then y'all should be pretty happy :)

Love to you all brothers and sisters. Peace.

Gina B.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbZJYWjkAPo is a clip of the video of Obama referring to babies and stds as punishment for a bad decision.

I still disagree with you about the Maverick thing. Do you think that McCain wanted to stay in the POW camp for his own good? No, he did for the greater good. Does it make it less of a decision if it is made more last minute. This decision is the same. He did it not for himself, but for the country, because he believes deeply in his ideals.

If Obama is really about change why does he pick a running mate that is the epitomy of politics as usual? He doesn't have the guts to run on real change. The only change he will bring about is higher taxes, more spending on programs that don't work, he will destroy our health care system, etc. McCain has a record of bringing about change and so does Palin.

Sorry to disagree but I have watched/heard too many "factual" stories from the media that turn out to be false to get all worked up about what is being said as to why or when he chose Palin. If they had anything that big on Palin they would leave her daughter alone. By the way, is the far right media you refer to Fox News. We have one station that even puts a conservative view point out there, you have all the others. I wouldn't complain too much.
Peace to you all too. Tell Molly hi.

Theisens

Splash,

Thanks for the sermon.

Who's the enemy again? I forget.

By the way, if you're going to preach at me, at least spell my name right.

"Going down in a blaze of insignificance",

Theisens

Camilo

I can't believe that conservative Christians still trust the Republicans on the issue of abortion. The idea that abortion is "a game of inches" only betrays the fact that the political establishment has made it so, when a long TD pass is what's needed, only to keep the Christians voting for Republicans. Neither party wants anything other than the status quo. The Constitution provides for Congressional regulation of the Supreme Court's docket. Ron Paul proposed a bill years ago that would have removed abortion from the federal courts, rendering Roe v. Wade null and void. In recent years (until 2007 that is) a pro-life Congressional majority with a pro-life President ignored this excellent (though not perfect) play.

As to Palin, certainly it's nice that she is pro-life, pro-family, pro-gun, pro-reform, etc. And I still think McCain made a brilliant move politically. However, she's a typical Christian dipensationalist Israeli/Manchurian candidate, who will always support using young Christian Americans as cannon fodder for the Israelis' regional plans.

Check out her stance and her church's teaching here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

There are no significant differences between any of the four robots grabbing all of our attention - merely vanity policy positions noisily made. They all support war (differing on which country to bomb), inflation, creeping socialism or fascism (all support warrantless wiretapping; all support government bailouts of the megarich), and all support the status quo on abortion.

Voting Democrat or Republican is a wasted vote.

Splash

So you're saying the end of partial birth abortion isn't progress. You're telling me pro-aborts living "in fear" suggests we're headed in the wrong direction. Aaaaand you're ACTUALLY saying there's "no significant difference" between John Roberts/Samuel Alito and whoever Barack Obama will appoint.

Hope that American Conservative Party yard sign will fetch you enough with historical oddities collectors when Obama's tax man comes knocking.

Look, I adore Ron Paul on nearly every issue, too. (De facto isolationism notwithstanding.) I, too, wish he had magical powers to make gumdrops rain from the heavens and the streets run with Ovaltine. But right now he doesn't, because decades of public education have left this country without a basic grasp of the Founders' intent.

More to the point, the re-education we need won't happen before November. So in the meantime, we can either pretend to accomplish something, or we can accomplish something.

Believe it or not, patching a wall is, in fact, better than letting it fall while you lack the materials for a new one. Because rebuilding under 12 feet of water from Hurricane Obama will be much harder. (Mainly because there will be new laws against it, enforced by a fresh crop of judicial activist lifers.)

And did you just cite Huffpo as a source of reliable information on politics?

Finally, please tell me we aren't so far gone that we're willing to dismiss the potential second coming of Margaret Thatcher because -- horrors! -- she's a charismatic.

I won't even get into the staggering lack of geopolitical perspective that views Iraq and Afghanistan as somehow war waged for Israeli regional interests. Oy.

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